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Rhen Ayases Ideas to fix Rockets

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Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.04 09:54:00 - [1] Hey, its not really new that rockets are pretty weak for now. with 10 km range on 2 frigs mwding the real range gets to like 2km. and even if they hit the damage is so low you shieldtank it with a 2 shield/sec rate sometimes. So here are some ideas to tweak them: Changes to Rocket Launchers: Half the RoF to make it possible to spam rockets really hard (4.0 -> 2.0 on unbonused t1 launcher) Double Capacity to also load double the rockets inside the ship (0.15 -> 0.3 on t1 launcher, 0.2->0.4 in t2 launcher) Change the overload to 15% missile damage instead of rof (as we already got enough with that change) Changes to Rockets: Lower damage by 40% (25 to 15 on unbonused t1 rockets) with the rof bonus it already results in a 20% damage boost double their speed (2250 to 4500 on unbonused t1 rockets) give them quite a range boost, but more: they can catch up with frigs lower the flighttime by 25% (2 to 1,5 on unbonused t1 rockets) to compensate the range boost on speed a little half their volume (0.005 to 0.0025 on t1 rockets) with the already bigger vault on the launchers, and the greater rof, this gives them a reasonable capacity overall triple the explosion velocity (85 to 250 on t1 rockets) i mean really... what frigs fly with 85 m/s? with mwd or ab it even gets worse, thats why most rockets just suck ass against frigs, as a frig weapon you hardly can fit 2 webbers to pin the other one down... Rocket Ship Bonus: [list] Anathema change the 5% rocket damage bonus into 15% em rocket damage, to get the amarr specific bonus more in front and boost the damage a little better Heretic with the new rockets this ship should be a reasonable rocket destroyer, so i dont think it need much tweaks Vengeance change the 5% damage bonus into a rof bonus, Macross Missile Massacre incoming, and if we ever get a 4th assault frig bonus, make it 10% bonus to explosion velocity Malediction change the rocket bonus into a speedbonus of 10% per level, interceptors are fast... the rockets need to be faster other ships like caldari get most bonus for all missiles or rockets and standard ones anyway, so with the general tweaks i think they are pretty much strong enough -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.04 14:04:00 - [2] the speed bonus on the malediciton is meant to missile velocity, not the ship :> and i think explo velocty should be enough at 150-200 (so kinda 2-2,35x of the actuall base) because with the skills it already get pretty good, with 250 on a heretic you dont get issues against 1km/s frigs on ab or 4km/s on mwd intis. so a little to much maybe jsut to summarize: * 20% overall dps (double rof while lowering base dmg by 40%) * 4x amount of rockets in the launcher (to compensate the really low clipsize now and the even greater rof) * 50% more range (lowering flighttime a little but double speed) * 2-2.5x explosion velocity: so that this anti frig weapon already can hit moving frigs! -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.04 14:29:00 - [3] with t2 all lvl5 and 1 bcu i already can hit 1.97 :> add another bcu and it is below 1.8... now overload it and we hit 1.5 :p i never heard of such a problem... but if so its up to ccp anyway. maybe leave the rof and raise the damage by 20% instead or something like that. its a suggestion and not a "take this as it stands or leave it alone" -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.05 07:41:00 - [4] well, then please make another post, i just focuse here on rockets and on ships with a rocket bonus. that covops mostly dont even got a slot to fit something offensive (2 high, with probe launcher and covops cloak) is another story. noone say i want this ideas 1:1 used by ccp. but at least rockets need to be fixed and some bonuses too (malediction for example really needs some range for example). but this thread is for rockets now :> -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.05 08:10:00 - [5] the explosion velocity is the mainthing why rockets suck and they need far more speed, my idea gives them 50% more range (from 10 to 15) the way missiles work, the real range is still under 10km if not both frigs play sitting ducks. -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.05 08:22:00 - [6] those are just two main problems, clipsize is a problem too -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.10 19:35:00 - [7] still in need! :> -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.11 13:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus Love the idea. I've always loved the idea of the Vengeance, but with one AF having only 1 mid slot (which is fantastic, in certain situations), and the other being useless for dps, Amarr AFs leave much to be desired. at least the vengeance is a bulky tackler that can take a few shots for now, and the retri is a neat fast mission ship for lvl1-3, but yeah its one of the ideas to make them more useful. -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Ebanni The real fix is to just get rid of rockets altogether and make Standards a bit easier to fit on frigs by giving the frigs a bonus to handle the fitting. Hell, CCP made it easy to put torpedoes on SB's (and cruise missiles, before that, if you've been playing that long) so it's not like such tweaking hasn't been done before to allow for unconventional launcher fits on frigates. Sure, some folks have highly researched rocket BPO's, maybe even a rare T2 BPO... oh well. rockets should be the short range missile equivalent to heavy assault/torps. so faster shooting as the long range variant, for more dps and no option to change their sig radius. so i doubt taking out rockets is "the idea" :p and for pan dora: doubling the speed istn much, cruise missiles are already that fast, but they should be able to catch frigs too. its a anti frig weapon after all and in pvp you rarly fight ab frigs (i dont say never! just rarely...). missile velocity is caldari thing? so the heretic is a caldari ship now? its a rocket ship with velocity bonus to rockets, think about it ;p and rockets the advantage of the low fitting requeriments isnt enough, you still rarley fitted them... as they just dont have any use at all. last but not least: the anathema is a covops and dont need fighting bonus, thats true, but that would count for all the covops anyway, still they got bonus -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.13 23:36:00 - [10] well, missiles are fine they have advantages and disadvantages, and they are the most used weapon against rats. so i am ignorant? or maybe you are the ignorant one? whoever knows. but what most people aggre: rockets just suck, even with 25% ship bonus you are better off just fitting autocannons or if your cap can handle it blaster/pulses. because its just near impossible to hit other frigs with them and they do less damage too. so this are ideas from me, noone said the wholeconcept must be all or nothing. its up to ccp what they do, if they say rof is fine they dont need to change it, if they say clipsize is fine, they dont need to change it. but what we aggree: rockets need a change to have some use at all! -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.14 23:32:00 - [11] this is a thread for rockets, because rockets are broken in any case, they are useless with low sp, with high sp (the other weapon systems outrun them even more)m in pve (against rats the range and damage is just not uificent, you simply fit an autocannon, even on rocket bonused ships like the vengeance) and also in pvp (nothing fights in the rocket range or simply outrunning them on mwd or make the silly low explosion velocity useless with an ab) then its also to fast to empty your launcher while you ned endless ammo in the cargo (well, if you dont die. as most of the time you are reloading anyway :>) -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:36:00 - [12] thats what i am saying, rockets are currently to broken. they just got use in lvl1 missions, and even here you are better off with using ac on a rocket bonused ship :> -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.18 06:10:00 - [13] well you say ham are balanced, torps are popular too, hm and cruise are most used weapon for mission runners... but now downgrading to frigs you either fit a standard launcher because they actually can hit something. or simply go for the turret slots. i think your revision is way over the top. and 85m/s with the 20 sig radius sounds on paper not that bad. but it is, a frig with 400 base speed without ab and 40 sig radius is already in the damage decrease range. no fit an ab and you are way out. fit an mwd and the frig will outrun. antidrone seems to never was a real thing anyway. leaving rockets behind without any use, beside looking cool. so simple tripling explosion velocity will make it more viable, the thing with halfing rof but decrease damage is just one option (in my opinion rockets should be really really fast loaded weapon). if ccp say its to much, so simply increase damage output without touching rof, same thing... noone ever said (and i wonder why people always rip single parts out that can be ignored) you have to take the whole or nothing of my ideas. its just a collection of ideas. the thing with flight time, is you need just about 20km range. so double the speed and we can maybe catch faster frigs and are in ham and torp range (so all 3 main assault types got the same range). so if you really tune it down: triple explosion velocity, double velocity, add a little dps (if however its plain make 25 to 40 or doule rof and lower to 20 whatever) and half cargo use per ammo... and rockets are viable again compared to the other. so without a total revision they are on par with the other missiles again and got some uses. and still if they make a revision later: why not. but its not like "dont change rockets, because missiles suck, even they are the only one that you really cant use" which seems to be your opinion and i cant agree with that :p -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.
Rhen Ayase Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.19 13:18:00 - [14] just as i said before... the main thing is "add dps" the thing with more rof was to make them more interesting (as really fast rof would be something new) if its not doable add a little base damage but not to much, else standard missiles get obsolete, which isnt a good thing either... so please dont hang on just one thing... rockets are clearly broken with explosion velocity, kinda broken with own velocity, could use a little more dps (else we just end up with AC on rocket ships, because they deal more damage in that short range... without both the velocity disadvantages) and maybe increased clipsize in launchers would be nice too. nothing more nothing less. no complete missiles overhaul needed, no "i want fast rof or else i want nothing" or whatever it looks like. -------------------------------------- Slave and Property of Kathryn Dougans.

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